85x Motor Technical Info

[RichR]

So we know from the brochure that on the 85x the motors produce up to 210 kW (250 kW on vRS) if the battery charge is over 88% and the battery temperature is between 23C and 50C, and for no more than 30 seconds at a time. But I'm struggling to find information on what power the two motors can produce when below 88% (ie most of the time). Front motor I assume is just 80 kW maximum when it's needed, so I guess all the boost/limit software is related to the rear APP550 motor.

Does anyone have any links to any technical documentation giving information about the different modes the APP550 motor operates in?

[riki1]

The engine produces the same power even below 88%, but for a shorter time. The information is from a technician from the ŠKODA factory (he was not very enthusiastic about having to answer this). I think that it is connected with the fact that as the capacity of the battery decreases, its voltage also decreases, and thus for the same performance, more current is needed and therefore more heating of the conductors, which is why it takes a shorter time.

[RichR]

Many thanks - that makes sense. It wasn't something that happened on the older APP310 motor in my Sportline 80, so I'm intrigued to know how it works on the APP510, given the caveat in the brochure about the battery SOC and temperature for maximum power. So for example if you had an 85 vRS, you could probably still potentially use the full 340PS to pull out to overtake at 50% battery, as you'd only be using it for a 2 or 3 seconds.

It's all so different to my knowledge of torque and power curves on petrol engines

[Aragorn]

The battery management system provides the car with a "maximum discharge current". You can see the current value with Car Scanner.

That value on a nice toasty warm day with a full battery might be say 650A

650A * 400v = 260kw.

As the battery discharges two things happen. Firstly the voltage drops. Secondly the BMS will start to derate the maximum current available. Since power is current * Voltage, these effects together mean the available power will be reduced.

Similarly at lower temperatures it will derate that maximum current regardless of SOC. So on a freezing cold morning you might only have 400A available even with a fully charged battery.

How that power is divvyed up between the motors is unknown, its unlikely only one motor will do the derating though. The VCU will alter the torque demand to each motor dynamically based on many factors to optimise for efficiency etc, and will ensure it adheres to the BMS's maximum allowed current.


Your 80 will have done the same thing, however the power limit on the 80 is quite low in comparison (~150kw?), which means that the range of situations where the battery cannot supply enough current to meet maximum power is vastly reduced.


And no, if the battery is too cold and at too low an SOC you simply wont get maximum power for any length of time. You can see the green power meter stops short of the end of the bar in this situation. With my 60 it only usually happens at very low SOC or in very cold weather, but the loaner 80x i had would do it in a wider range of situations, and it was quite noticable that maximum power wasnt available.

[RichR]

I'll be able to do a proper comparison in January when my shiny new 85 vRS arrives I guess

[mattblackfinish]

I picked up an 85x a couple days ago... Ignoring deep dives into the technical info it is exceptionally rapid, rather needlessly so. After scaring everyone back into eco, the AWD means huge turning circle too. In sport mode it's obvious all the motors are on rather than just RWD

Increasingly it seems they fit a one size fits all powertrain for simplicity then just fiddle with software but at these power levels for a normal family car it's crazy fast. They are a bit secretive but 640odd ibft torque and 280hp - that's nearly double my Audi A4 which was fine. I'd prefer 50% power and 30% more range

[RichR]

I took an 85x Sportline out for a test drive on Sunday, so know that the vRS is more or less the same as that, just with a higher peak power (and DCC suspension on the spec I've ordered). Had a good blast round the B-roads north of York, and round a few roundabouts at speeds that would definitely have the back end of my RWD Sportline stepping out a little. It's still not quite as quick or anywhere near as precise handling as some of my previous cars (Nissan Pulsar GTI-R, Subaru Legacy GTB for example), but it's a lot cheaper to run and infinitely more reliable The improved handling of the 4WD Enyaq was what decided it more than anything - and the extra price of the vRS is something we'd planned for.

The improved efficiency of the new motor means the overall range of a 85 vRS should be about the same as my 80 Sportline, if driven in the same way. So I can have better handing and more power, plus a lot of the little issues of the older model have been rectified, and the new Infotainment software is much nicer.

[Aragorn]

Increasingly it seems they fit a one size fits all powertrain for simplicity then just fiddle with software but at these power levels for a normal family car it's crazy fast. They are a bit secretive but 640odd ibft torque and 280hp - that's nearly double my Audi A4 which was fine. I'd prefer 50% power and 30% more range

The big thing with EV's is the power doesnt come at the expense of range. In an ICE getting twice the power ends up needing a larger engine, which is then operating inefficiently at low load most of the time, and thus has poorer fuel consumption. If you want maximum "range" you go with the smallest engine. In an EV the efficiency doesnt really change much wether they give you 180hp or 320. And because the cars are on the expensive end, they've leaned into this advantage by providing power levels only typically available at the premium end of the ICE model range.

[Walter Eagle]

The improved efficiency of the new motor ...

I'm still not convinced I buy in to this improved motor efficiency issue.

Was the old one a really badly designed/constucted motor? All electric motors, of any size, for all applications, have been about 95%-ish efficient for decades now. I can't imagine Skoda's supplier will have made a breakthrough in the laws of physics. At best, it's likely to be tenths of a percentage different in efficiency.
Does that really translate in to better performance or range, given all the other factors such a load, geography, driver etc?

Or have I missed something? (It's been known!)

[Aragorn]

it'll be a percent or two here and there, but i generally agree with you, it wont be massive. Certainly not the sort of thing thats going to give you 10% more range.

Saying that, its perhaps possible there are parts of the efficiency map where the original motor or inverter was poor, and they've improved upon that. After all the efficiency isnt 95% at all speeds and loads.

It could even be a number of factors, for instance a more torquey motor allowing different gearing, which in turn allows a more optimised motor RPM when sitting at 75mph on a motorway, and thus a few things stacking up to give a bigger difference than just some "magic" motor.