Heat pump vibrations and noise

Faults and Technical chat for the Skoda Enyaq
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RichR
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:53 am
Location: South end of North Yorkshire

Post by RichR »

OK, a 30C increase is quite a demand for any heating system. Does it get quieter once the car has reached 20C? ie - it's only compensating for the heat lost through the windows.

How does the noise and vibration compare to having a petrol engine?
Enyaq iV 80 Sportline, Energy Blue, Assisted Drive Plus, Infotainment Plus, Convenience Plus, Comfort Seat Plus, Transport Pack, Heat Pump, ME3.2, Built Nov 2021.

Vasarolli
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:11 pm

Post by Vasarolli »

In my case it is pretty mild, would not take it back to the shop for this. Noise is what it is, inside not too bad, outside takes away the silent ev preconception.
I think it runs all the time on high, at start the consumption is coming from the resistance heating, but even once it is nice and warm it consumes about 2kwh. Sometimes drops to 1.2ish, rarely below 1.
Anyway, overall all good for me, not sure if Sandro had a lot worse vibration though.
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DazAutomatic
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Post by DazAutomatic »

I've never noticed any vibration from the heat pump or anywhere else. But we've not been as cold as Finland. Presumably you know it is the heat pump, not the fan? What does the compressor screw into? All the pipes firmly attached? I can imagine it could be a difficult one for a garage to track down the source of. It certainly seems odd.
Enyaq iV 80 Loft, 125 kW DC charging, heat pump, assisted drive+, parking+, convenience basic, towbar prep, ME3.0 update. MyEnergi Zappi v2 charger. Intelligent Octopus, referral code to share £100: share.octopus.energy/sunny-fox-995
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RichR
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Location: South end of North Yorkshire

Post by RichR »

Just a note on terminology: there is no unit called a 'heat pump', what we have is a 'heat pump system' - ie a system that can 'pump' heat from one area to another. In terms of physical components it's not that different to standard aircon in that there's a compressor, valves, and finned heat exchange modules (variously called radiator, evaporator, condenser, heat exchanger depending on where it is in the system, but essentially finned metal that allows a liquid or gas in one part to transfer heat to a liquid or gas flowing through the other). The compressor contains a very powerful electric motor (5kW) powered by the 400V battery. There are also fans on the radiator which run off the 12V system.

If you open the bonnet and look below the black plastic stuff on the top (the cabin air intake fan assembly), you'll see a silver metal cylinder about 15cm in diameter, 25cm long, with an orange cable and a couple of pipes. This is the compressor. The non-heat pump version is a bit smaller mainly due to running at a lower pressure. It's mounted on a thick plastic anti-vibration block. In terms of obvious differences under the bonnet to the non-heat pump system, the compressor unit is smaller, there is no heat exchanger in the motor/battery liquid coolant system, and there are fewer solenoid valves in the area to the left of the compressor. Most of the 'magic' happens due to the heat pump system being able to route liquid carbon dioxide through different places to either pick up or release heat. That means it can take heat from the motor and dump it into the cabin, or take heat from the cabin and dump it outside (very simplified, as there are other operating modes). If the demanded temperature is lower than the outside temperature it runs exactly the same as the non-heat pump system, just with R744 (carbon dioxide) rather than R1234yf (2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene) as the fluid in the system.

The compressor is the obvious source of any noise and vibration, as it is a big powerful motor. But its position and mounting should really minimise this. To be fair - the R1234yf compressor in the non-heat pump models is also quite noisy. The radiator fans are really noisy too. I would say that my Enyaq is a little louder on the outside than my Outlander PHEV was when doing preheating (ie pure electric heating and aircon to dry the air), but probably as much that there isn't a bit engine block nearby to absorb some of the sound like there is in the Outlander.

So yeah - EVs might be quieter than petrol/diesel cars because they don't have exploding oil pushing lumps of metal up and down, but the heating and cooling system can be just as noisy as the one in a petrol/diesel car, just without the engine noise as well. :)
Enyaq iV 80 Sportline, Energy Blue, Assisted Drive Plus, Infotainment Plus, Convenience Plus, Comfort Seat Plus, Transport Pack, Heat Pump, ME3.2, Built Nov 2021.
Sandro
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:48 pm

Post by Sandro »

Do I have tried now to use Auto instead of classic AC and now I cant hear it. The pump turn on around 20-21C and you can hear it work up the RPM and with that the vibrations gets more and more intense. The closest I can explain it is if your mobile phone was on the wheel and it vibrated.

If you drive you wont feel it as much, but when going slowly or standing still you feel it all over the place.

The shop said that they have had some issues with ID3 ID4 and Enyaqs regarding pumps that were noisy and vibrating.

So either this is normal and I'm too picky or my second pump is just as bad as the first one. I don't know what to do next.

My Enyaq has in 6 months of owning it been in the shop 6 times now:

Heat pump issues
Front speaker crackling and sounding bad
Door panels making ticking noises
Small screen at the wheel flashing with a blue or yellow cast
The Skoda logo light projecting on the ground getting deformed

This is turning out to be my worst purchase ever.
chillyboy123
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:58 am

Post by chillyboy123 »

Sandro wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:56 pm Small screen at the wheel flashing with a blue or yellow cast
Sandro

What did they do about that particular issue.

I have got the same issue too. The speedo screen turns completely blue or slightly yellow for one second a few times a week.

I have been trying to capture it happening on a GoPro camera, so I have evidence to so the garage. I have mounted the camera in front of the wheel. I am not driving with the camera in my hand 😂

I will get them to deal with this when it goes in for the software update.

Cheers
Enyaq iV60 - Race Blue with 20” Vega Wheels,
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Sandro
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:48 pm

Post by Sandro »

chillyboy123 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:20 pm
Sandro wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:56 pm Small screen at the wheel flashing with a blue or yellow cast
Sandro

What did they do about that particular issue.

I have got the same issue too. The speedo screen turns completely blue or slightly yellow for one second a few times a week.

I have been trying to capture it happening on a GoPro camera, so I have evidence to so the garage. I have mounted the camera in front of the wheel. I am not driving with the camera in my hand 😂

I will get them to deal with this when it goes in for the software update.

Cheers
Nothing as of yet, they will change the entire screen once it gets in. All of the above issues are still a problem after 6 visits to the shop. I have heard other people that had the same issue who claims if was fixed after a screen replacement.

The shop asked Skoda what it could be they said they have no idea what it could be.

It's all a big joke.
chillyboy123
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:58 am

Post by chillyboy123 »

Cheers Sandro

That’s the problem with new models so new to the market.

They are struggling to make enough parts to get new cars on the road. Never made replacement parts for warranty issues.
Enyaq iV60 - Race Blue with 20” Vega Wheels,
Assisted Drive Package +, Convenience Package +,
Parking Package Basic, Drive Package Basic,
Climate Package Basic, 120 kW charging,
Light and View Package Basic,

Upgraded to ME 3.0
Sandro
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:48 pm

Post by Sandro »

RichR wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:02 pm Just a note on terminology: there is no unit called a 'heat pump', what we have is a 'heat pump system' - ie a system that can 'pump' heat from one area to another. In terms of physical components it's not that different to standard aircon in that there's a compressor, valves, and finned heat exchange modules (variously called radiator, evaporator, condenser, heat exchanger depending on where it is in the system, but essentially finned metal that allows a liquid or gas in one part to transfer heat to a liquid or gas flowing through the other). The compressor contains a very powerful electric motor (5kW) powered by the 400V battery. There are also fans on the radiator which run off the 12V system.

If you open the bonnet and look below the black plastic stuff on the top (the cabin air intake fan assembly), you'll see a silver metal cylinder about 15cm in diameter, 25cm long, with an orange cable and a couple of pipes. This is the compressor. The non-heat pump version is a bit smaller mainly due to running at a lower pressure. It's mounted on a thick plastic anti-vibration block. In terms of obvious differences under the bonnet to the non-heat pump system, the compressor unit is smaller, there is no heat exchanger in the motor/battery liquid coolant system, and there are fewer solenoid valves in the area to the left of the compressor. Most of the 'magic' happens due to the heat pump system being able to route liquid carbon dioxide through different places to either pick up or release heat. That means it can take heat from the motor and dump it into the cabin, or take heat from the cabin and dump it outside (very simplified, as there are other operating modes). If the demanded temperature is lower than the outside temperature it runs exactly the same as the non-heat pump system, just with R744 (carbon dioxide) rather than R1234yf (2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene) as the fluid in the system.

The compressor is the obvious source of any noise and vibration, as it is a big powerful motor. But its position and mounting should really minimise this. To be fair - the R1234yf compressor in the non-heat pump models is also quite noisy. The radiator fans are really noisy too. I would say that my Enyaq is a little louder on the outside than my Outlander PHEV was when doing preheating (ie pure electric heating and aircon to dry the air), but probably as much that there isn't a bit engine block nearby to absorb some of the sound like there is in the Outlander.

So yeah - EVs might be quieter than petrol/diesel cars because they don't have exploding oil pushing lumps of metal up and down, but the heating and cooling system can be just as noisy as the one in a petrol/diesel car, just without the engine noise as well. :)
Hmm since you seem to know a lot about the pumps, could you please explain:

How is it possible that I feel vibrations when the heating is around 20 C but I feel no vibrations when using the AC at max cold air in the summer? Shouldn't I feel the sane vibrations always?
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RichR
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:53 am
Location: South end of North Yorkshire

Post by RichR »

Yes, you'd think that you should if it was the compressor causing them when under load - which is why I'm unsure that it's the source of the vibration.

Only a VW/Skoda engineer who actually knows the system properly would be able to diagnose this I think.
Enyaq iV 80 Sportline, Energy Blue, Assisted Drive Plus, Infotainment Plus, Convenience Plus, Comfort Seat Plus, Transport Pack, Heat Pump, ME3.2, Built Nov 2021.
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